Energetic Objections

I came across the Energetic Processions channel recently and took some time to listen to a few videos lodging objections to Protestantism on justification. It's a three and a half hour video, so I'm going to pick on just a few things the Eastern Orthodox panel mention. This originally was a longer post, but I already cut and published certain material in other posts, not all of which I can remember. For one example, though, see Robinson's comments at 52:20 in the video, which I address here and touch on again here).

One of the participants, Cyril Jenkins, says: 

The Bible's not a systematic theology. And systematics kind of has its place, but I would think only long after historical theology and biblical theology have done their work and that's that's not really what Calvinism largely is at all.

Setting aside the Eastern Orthodox professor's presupposition against sola scriptura in his prioritization of historical theology (a point Steve Hays dealt with long ago), fascinating about this is that Seraphim Hamilton - the young man in the video whose debate was being reviewed - self-admittedly owes much of his learning to the Calvinist theologian James B. Jordan, whom Seraphim has described as providing an "ocean of biblical material. It's a kind of a crash course in the whole Bible" (link). It's a shame Seraphim had dipped out of the conversation by this point, or he might have mentioned this to them. 

Likewise, Seraphim has favorably mentioned Peter Leithart's book A House for My Name. I'm probably missing other references, but Meredith Kline, Geerhardus Vos, Warren Gage, G. K. Beale, J. V. Fesko, etc. are a few other leading figures in biblical theology with whom Jenkins might want to become familiar.

Earlier in the discussion, an Eastern Orthodox pastor (De Young) offered the following comment on a lexical argument made by a debate opponent to Seraphim Hamilton on the topic of justification.

One of the the real issues especially with the Reformed approach to this is, as you said, they're going to Greek Lexicon and they're only talking about the New Testament. And a lot of this stuff really falls apart when you get into the Old Testament. And it's not a place where they really want to go, and so as a general future reference, you know, kind of dragging them there... I mean just as one example - as one example - the bit that he would consider Old Testament that's closest in time to the New Testament that talks about justification is Daniel 8:14. And that's where in the Aramaic, Daniel talks about the temple being trampled underfoot for a period of time, at which point the temple will be justified. It's tsadeq in Aramaic, and that is so clearly talking about cleansed, purified, re-established, right? Put back in order right? Any English translation you look at translates it that way.

De Young's intimation is that the justification has an ontological aspect to it along the lines of what EO espouses. Let's compare that to how James B. Jordan translates Daniel 8:14 - And he said to me, "Until evening morning two thousand and three hundred; and a sanctuary will be vindicated." Jordan argues:

The period of time from sometime in 64 A.D. to the destruction of the Temple in A.D. 70 is about seven years, or just short of it. This period fits well with 2300 days, taken literally. During this time, a wicked host of priests performed the Continual, after usurping it from the righteous, from the Chief of chiefs. During this time also, both a (new) sanctuary, the Church, and its host (pastors) were trampled and persecuted in the Great Tribulation. After this time, the new sanctuary (the Church) was vindicated by the destruction of the Temple, Jerusalem, and the apostate Circumcision wherever they were. (The Handwriting on the Wall, pg. 437)

According to Jordan, then, De Young is suggesting the apostate temple order was "cleansed, purified, re-eastablished" when, in fact, it was destroyed (70 A.D.)! In contrast, Jordan's biblical-theological interprets the destruction of the apostate temple (vs. 13) as not only not cleansing or transforming the new, antitypical temple of the church (vs. 14), rather, the former (vs. 13) vindicates the latter (vs. 14).

While Young's Literal Translation of Daniel 8:14 is rather wooden, its translation of וְנִצְדַּ֖ק as "declared right" undercuts the Eastern Orthodox pastor's contention regarding English translations. This is even more ironic in that after he criticized Seraphim's opponent for apparently failing to exegete the proof-texts he offered during the debate, De Young does the very same thing. 

If De Young is willing to attempt to rebut Jordan's interpretation with an interpretation situated within a biblical-theological context, I should like to see it. Note EO apologists are even relying on Jordan - to repeat, a dastardly Calvinist! - to such an extent that they're using their own money to translate his commentaries (link). 

By the way, I mention Jordan so much because I think he could be an important figure in future dialogues, not just with EOs, but with others. I indicated as much four years ago when I mentioned him as only one of two examples (the other being Gordon Clark, of course) of someone worth researching (link) before I discussed how I recommended going about research. He appeals to many people whose faiths differ from his own. Even those who view him as dangerous seem to find some comments of his insightful. 

Moving on, a final comment is on the extreme opposition the EOs in the video have to the idea Reformed believers can have assurance of their own salvation. I'll skip over but note in passing a particularly out of place (and certainly fallacious) reference in the video to deathbed anecdotes as evidence that Calvinists have no assurance. This type of manipulation is not qualified to be called apologetics. 

Here is Robinson at minute mark 2:22:29:

On the reformed view can you know that you're elect? How? There's nothing external that happens in the world that's inconsistent with you being reprobate. There's nothing internal to you in terms of your thoughts or states of your soul that are that's inconsistent with you being reprobate. All of your data is consistent with you being elect or reprobate. There's nothing you can point to - "Oh, I have faith." Well, I can't have your toothache, right? So it's not like I can take my experience of having faith and compare it to your experience of having faith and say, "Ah, see, mine's genuine."

I find this objection very weak. Robinson is suggesting that we need to be able to compare experiences of faith to have assurance of which is genuine. But where did he find that as a criterion of assurance? Why can't I compare my experience to what the definition of faith just is: understanding of, assent to, and trust in the gospel of Jesus Christ? 

Does Robinson think he needs to compare himself to other dental patients to determine if he has a toothache? Did Adam need to ask anyone else if he heard God correctly in Genesis 2? Does Robinson not realize he has just prevented members of his own faith from having assurance? EOs can no more compare their experiences of toothaches than can Reformed believers. Here is what Gordon Clark has to say of Robinson's illustration (link):

Since two people cannot have the same sensation, for my toothache is not yours, two people never sense the same thing. Each person lives in a separate world of his own perceptions. Therefore whatever a man thinks is true, that is true for him, and no one else can judge. This is the theory of relativism, the denial of fixed, eternal truth.

Perhaps Robinson projects his own experience while he believes he was a Calvinist onto Calvinism itself (minute mark 2:11:28ff.). He struggled with assurance, asking himself whether his faith was "great enough" - there are, unfortunately, a minority of Reformed believers who do teach that assurance is of the essence of saving faith, and these men can have the tendency of pushing younger men and women into doubt. See the last link in this post where I specifically refute one such person. Robinson's experience is sad, but it cannot be taken as the marker for what Reformed theology actually is.

Another point Robinson makes involves Calvin (minute mark 2:23:09):

You look at Hebrews 6. What Calvin says there - Calvin says that God actually begins the process of regeneration in the reprobate and then withdraws it so that they feel like they're actually being regenerate and so that they end up falsely believing. Well, let's put aside God's moral character as a question at that point. Let's ask the question of, "Okay how do I discriminate between that situation and mine?" I don't know how Calvinists have any Assurance at all. Zero. Goose egg.

We can set aside the point that Calvin is but one exegete. It isn't necessary to make this observation (see below), so I only do so because I know - but readers might not - that this would just lead to EOs begging the question: "if we don't respect what the [alleged] founder of our religion says, then that says it all about his and your religion itself, huh?" 

It's an escape-hatch EOs (and RCs) use if they can, especially if they see no other way out of a conversation in which they no longer wish to participate: make Calvin to be the straw head of a straw man, call the man "Reformed theology," and chop off Calvin (Luther/Protestantism, etc.). A recipe for frustration on the part of the Reformed believer, unless he is willing to let lies and nonsense go. 

This is often called for and recommended. Knowing for yourself that Reformed theology is based on God's revelation is enough. Not every misrepresentation or bad argument should be responded to. There are better things to do.

Anyway, I believe Robinson is referring to Calvin's comments on verse 4 here:

God indeed favors none but the elect alone with the Spirit of regeneration, and that by this they are distinguished from the reprobate; for they are renewed after his image and receive the earnest of the Spirit in hope of the future inheritance, and by the same Spirit the Gospel is sealed in their hearts. But I cannot admit that all this is any reason why he should not grant the reprobate also some taste of his grace, why he should not irradiate their minds with some sparks of his light, why he should not give them some perception of his goodness, and in some sort engrave his word on their hearts. Otherwise, where would be the temporal faith mentioned by Mark 4:17? There is therefore some knowledge even in the reprobate, which afterwards vanishes away, either because it did not strike roots sufficiently deep, or because it withers, being choked up.

Robinson's argument is epistemic: two people experience different things (regeneration vs. taste of grace), yet they cannot distinguish themselves (regenerate vs. unregenerate). Thus, assurance is impossible. So goes the argument.

Firstly, I missed where Robinson got the idea Calvin says God "begins the process of regeneration in the reprobate and then withdraws it." Calvin's first line seems like a fairly straightforward statement to the contrary.

Secondly, does Calvin consider the reprobate to be believers or unbelievers at the time they taste God's grace? If the former, that would make him Augustinian. That would be inconsistent with Reformed theology and indeed undercut Calvin's ability to be assured (cf. link below)... but it would also in turn undercut Robinson's appeal to Calvin insofar as Robinson would no longer be objecting to Reformed theology. 

Now, if the latter - reprobates are never believers - do they ever believe they are? If not, there is no dilemma. If so, then (just as importantly) what are their epistemic grounds for the belief? We are returned to: do these people understand, assent, and trust in the gospel of Jesus Christ? Since we've assumed they are not believers at this point, the answer is no. So it is just a matter of discerning what they misunderstand or reject about the gospel.

These are questions which can't be skipped over, yet are. This is also where the "toothache" illustration turns out to be handy. It is true that I can never experience someone else's toothache or alleged experience of faith. That just means I can't have [infallible] assurance about their salvation, not mine. It also means I may remain ignorant about just what others are having trouble with when it comes to the gospel. Again, though, that has nothing to do with my faith in the gospel and whether I can be assured.

This might turn us to questions about how someone can know he is not ignorant of what saving faith entails. Having myself written a rather long excursus which preemptively answers most of the objections about assurance in the video and goes more deeply into the doctrine, I'll leave this link for those who want to read more, as we're turning more to the question of what is saving faith and less to whether Reformed assurance is possible.

But I will just remind readers that while we are called to full assurance, such not necessary to be saved. This is not to diminish the importance of assurance, but the author of Hebrews also recognizes a hierarchy of foods, some of which are more foundational to others. Assurance is typically something that comes with maturity in faith, and it can also be lost as well as be found again. 

This is not so on Eastern Orthodoxy. These men must admit that they could apostatize from the faith. Therefore, while they may say they are assured now, they cannot with boldness claim that when Jesus returns, they will be found with him. They note that any "divorce" (apostacy) can only initiated by themselves. Okay, are they that confident about themselves? Minute mark 2:26:31:

I'm in control of whether or not I decide to turn my back on Christ. Again, I'm totally capable of it. I do it in small ways all the time, right? But as long as I keep coming back, I know he's not going to turn his back on me.

"As long as I..." is not comforting to one stuck in sin. This almost comes off as cavalier. In their minds, their wills are decisive in salvation, not God's. I really do find it strange that they brought this topic up when it is so clear that what they offer is not the full assurance to which we are called: 

Colossians 4:12 Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ Jesus, greets you, always struggling on your behalf in his prayers, that you may stand mature and fully assured in all the will of God.